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Post by Dave Dexter on Sept 28, 2018 8:27:53 GMT
This falls under orchestration as well, but I found it interesting as a study of the man himself - it's a short piece of music (1m15) and it seems he might easily have spent hours perfecting little details. I'd guess that the moments he thought of as "rocky" would have had me ticking the box and moving to the next piece, well satisfied. We also see briefly that even a John Williams score gets some helpful annotation by the players.
The full piece, seemingly with aggressive Youtube compression:
Dissonance is obviously one of JW's tools, but am I the only one who hears an incongruous use of it at 0.34? In the low harp gliss and perhaps woodwinds.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Oct 2, 2018 10:04:01 GMT
My dissonance addled ears don't hear too much wrong with it, but I can understand why one might think otherwise. I just find it hard to believe that JW would not have heard any mistakes. More worryingly for me is that I felt somewhat underwhelmed by the piece but perhaps I shouldn't be too critical because he was doubtless hired for his signature style and therefore committed to providing a piece in a genre that he pretty much instigated anyhow. Nevertheless, always great to see behind the scenes.
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Post by driscollmusick on Oct 2, 2018 15:37:50 GMT
It may not be great, but the theme is pretty famous over here (and I hadn't realized Williams composed it). "Great Performances" is on our public television station and is basically the only way classical music, operas, etc are ever broadcast on TV here.
Even more famous in the US (and not well-known to be Williams' work) is his theme for the NBC News nightly broadcast:
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Post by Dave Dexter on Oct 2, 2018 19:51:00 GMT
My dissonance addled ears don't hear too much wrong with it, but I can understand why one might think otherwise. I just find it hard to believe that JW would not have heard any mistakes. More worryingly for me is that I felt somewhat underwhelmed by the piece but perhaps I shouldn't be too critical because he was doubtless hired for his signature style and therefore committed to providing a piece in a genre that he pretty much instigated anyhow. Nevertheless, always great to see behind the scenes. I was about to chide you for being worried, since you can't like every piece a composer does over a 200 year career and it shouldn't worry you when you don't, but then I'm a little worried that his theme for the (Han) Solo movie doesn't really resonate with me. Especially compared to the all-out whirlwind that John Powell brought to the rest of the score. Is it disloyalty to a great that worries us? I think it's the piano-led melody/chords of "Great Performances", even when it moves to brass and more JW orchestration, that sounds somehow strange and off-brand. I really like the rest of it and I imagine, though it's no Force Theme or Adventures on Earth, that if was composed for a now-classic film we'd perceive it differently. And it's even encouraging that I can listen to Williams every now and then and be a little blase about it, although I'm put in my place within eight bars. Williams has nuggets all over the place John, as if you didn't know - god, I'd love to do a news theme. Or a studio logo theme, like my favourite from Dreamworks: Edit: apparently JW composed the Dreamworks theme. The brass should have given that away. Christ, even in ignorance my tastes are predictable.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Oct 3, 2018 8:03:46 GMT
I like the Mission, probably because it is more 'classical' for want of a better word and less blatant. Given what you say about tv broadcasts and concert/operatic music John, I suppose it makes sense to use music that millions will be familiar and comfortable with by way of introduction.
Dave, did JW write Dreamworks?. I like the Universal Pictures logo by Jerry Goldsmith which feels to me like a more succinct and dignified musical bombast than the likes of say 20thC.Fox.
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Post by Dave Dexter on Oct 3, 2018 11:04:36 GMT
Dave, did JW write Dreamworks?. I like the Universal Pictures logo by Jerry Goldsmith which feels to me like a more succinct and dignified musical bombast than the likes of say 20thC.Fox. Apparently, but I can't find an official source. Maybe one person decided it was so and everyone else has been quoting them until no-one knows who said it. I take it you mean JG's original one and not the Brian Tyler arrangement used now, which I find a bit naff and ott, quite aside from the superfluous percussion over the ending feeling 0.3bpm out of sync...! Fox is incredibly in your face, but I appreciate that it's fundamentally unchanged since the 30s bar the added string section from 50s-present. And is it any surprise I like this?
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Post by Mike Hewer on Oct 3, 2018 13:38:34 GMT
I don't mind the Universal re-mix but that snare section is certainly straining the definition of 'feel' but it does work for me. The new Marvel makes me want to borrow one of the wife's throws, grab a dustbin lid and wear my knickers outside my pants.
I always try to hit the last chord with Fox, sometimes I count a rall for the last bar but I think you can also count a 5/4 in tempo and get that final chord.
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Post by driscollmusick on Oct 3, 2018 16:15:01 GMT
You all may know this, but at the time of the Star Wars premiere (late 70s), the 20th Century Fox fanfare was not commonly used for their films. Lucas wanted it as a recall to an earlier era, and Williams deliberately wrote the opening music of Star Wars to flow directly from it (same key). There's a recording somewhere of Williams trying out various re-orchestrations of that famous opening Star Wars chord to get the timing, etc right after the Fox fanfare. I think I heard it on YouTube, but maybe it was taken down.
What makes this all sad is now that the films (except IV) are owned by Disney and they have removed the Fox fanfare...
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Post by Dave Dexter on Oct 3, 2018 17:32:25 GMT
You all may know this, but at the time of the Star Wars premiere (late 70s), the 20th Century Fox fanfare was not commonly used for their films. Lucas wanted it as a recall to an earlier era, and Williams deliberately wrote the opening music of Star Wars to flow directly from it (same key). There's a recording somewhere of Williams trying out various re-orchestrations of that famous opening Star Wars chord to get the timing, etc right after the Fox fanfare. I think I heard it on YouTube, but maybe it was taken down. What makes this all sad is now that the films (except IV) are owned by Disney and they have removed the Fox fanfare... I had no idea! But it's not surprising, it's occasionally something thrown into live concerts and that pause of anticipation between Fox and SW is great. Nice to know it's great on purpose. I've seen all the new Disney SW films in the cinema and I don't recall the fanfare you linked to, in my recollection the Lucasfilm logo is silent.
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Post by fuguestate on Oct 16, 2018 23:28:59 GMT
[...] Dissonance is obviously one of JW's tools, but am I the only one who hears an incongruous use of it at 0.34? In the low harp gliss and perhaps woodwinds. I don't necessarily hear anything wrong with it, but I do hear a jump in the harmonic progression, which perhaps may be what's bothering you? It's the kind of thing I avoid in my own music, perhaps out of ingrained habit, but I didn't hear it as incongruous in this context because I've come to expect this sort of progression in this particular genre of music. It's a kind of "suddenly jolt you back in your original sitting position without any warning" or "press the revert button back to the status quo as if nothing has happened" sort of gesture that seems to be used quite frequently in film music, but less so in the kind of music I gravitate towards. Anyway, on a different note, this particular piece gave me a sudden dawning realization of what an interesting effect is produced when you double on orchestral melody with a piano an octave above -- an interesting tinkling effect that perhaps I could exploit in the future sometime. I'm pretty sure this is an age-old trick long worn out in more experienced ears, but it was fresh to me today.
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Post by fuguestate on Oct 16, 2018 23:35:15 GMT
[...] More worryingly for me is that I felt somewhat underwhelmed by the piece but perhaps I shouldn't be too critical because he was doubtless hired for his signature style and therefore committed to providing a piece in a genre that he pretty much instigated anyhow. [...] I was about to chide you for being worried, since you can't like every piece a composer does over a 200 year career and it shouldn't worry you when you don't, but then I'm a little worried that his theme for the (Han) Solo movie doesn't really resonate with me. Especially compared to the all-out whirlwind that John Powell brought to the rest of the score. Is it disloyalty to a great that worries us? [...] It's probably just me being ignorant ole me, but I pride myself on disliking certain famous pieces of the greats, because I insist on staying true to what my ear says rather than console myself that I ought to like something because everyone else does. But then, I've been proven wrong before -- there have been pieces that I initially disliked but gradually grew to like -- so there's that.
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