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Post by fuguestate on Aug 21, 2018 17:28:20 GMT
I know standard orchestration textbook advice is to avoid the lowest notes on the oboe, citing various reasons. But while browsing on youtube looking for an instrument timbre closest to what I have in mind, I listened to samples of low oboe notes, and they don't sound all that bad to me at all. They may not have the stereotypical "sweet oboe" sound, but why can't they be used to convey, say, melancholy, or broken heartedness, for example? Or some other strong emotion?
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Post by Dave Dexter on Aug 21, 2018 17:55:15 GMT
I know standard orchestration textbook advice is to avoid the lowest notes on the oboe, citing various reasons. But while browsing on youtube looking for an instrument timbre closest to what I have in mind, I listened to samples of low oboe notes, and they don't sound all that bad to me at all. They may not have the stereotypical "sweet oboe" sound, but why can't they be used to convey, say, melancholy, or broken heartedness, for example? Or some other strong emotion? I believe that it's not the timbre or quality that leads them to be advised against, but the potential issues of playing them accurately with lower-level players. Having never written soloistically for the extreme low range myself, that's just theoretical knowledge you've probably found yourself too. Why not consider english horn? The low range of the oboe sits in the sweet spot for eh and shouldn't present the potential problems that low oboe might, whilst maintaining a fairly similar and imo sweeter timbre. HANG ON what am I talking about, I forgot about this piece: soundcloud.com/davedextermusic/shoreline-for-woodwind-quartetThe oboe goes almost the way down at the start of the piece - sounds fine. But Kristin, the musician, is a machine in these matters. It was my insistence to use oboe for the melody that led to using the low range, if writing that piece now I might have done it differently.
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Post by fuguestate on Aug 21, 2018 18:41:14 GMT
Certainly, using EH for low oboe notes is the standard answer. But what if I don't want the sweet timbre? What if I want to make it sound strained and sour? Another alternative in that range is to use the bassoon, of course, which perhaps might be a better solution?
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Post by Dave Dexter on Aug 21, 2018 20:06:29 GMT
Certainly, using EH for low oboe notes is the standard answer. But what if I don't want the sweet timbre? What if I want to make it sound strained and sour? Another alternative in that range is to use the bassoon, of course, which perhaps might be a better solution? Low oboe doesn't seem to sound strained and sour. You get the strain more in the extreme highs of a lower instrument, but if you really want it to be strained and sour you'll need to notate it somehow, as musicians will do their best to make it work and assume you don't know instrument ranges when presented with a high part best suited to another instrument High bassoon range is above low oboe so you won't get the strain, and it also sounds thinner than I think you want. Bass clarinet seems about right.
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Post by fuguestate on Aug 21, 2018 20:54:09 GMT
OK, I think we're being confounded by adjectives meaning different things to different people when applied to timbre.
The low oboe timbre to me sounds piercing, very nasal, and could be suitable for sounding urgent, or for signifying bawling your eyes out in despair. It's not a common thing one wants to signify in music, but I can easily think of cases where such a sound might be just the ticket.
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Post by Dave Dexter on Aug 22, 2018 12:00:56 GMT
OK, I think we're being confounded by adjectives meaning different things to different people when applied to timbre. The low oboe timbre to me sounds piercing, very nasal, and could be suitable for sounding urgent, or for signifying bawling your eyes out in despair. It's not a common thing one wants to signify in music, but I can easily think of cases where such a sound might be just the ticket. Yes, it's very subjective. I think it's possible to get too caught up in the "function" of a particular instrument's timbre. Obviously they all have their strengths, but whatever you write for an instrument is what that instrument is for. If you decide oboe low range is for a certain limited set of scenarios, you might seldom use it. Your initial question of why low oboe couldn't convey "melancholy or broken heartedness" is getting close to old doctrines that suggested each key had its own very specific purpose and mood. If you're writing melancholia or broken heartedness, and do it well, it will communicate through the instrument.* * within physical limits, clearly a sustained line can't be played on glockenspiel or a high line played on a low instrument.
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Post by driscollmusick on Aug 22, 2018 16:09:02 GMT
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Post by fuguestate on Aug 22, 2018 17:16:54 GMT
driscollmusick: Indeed, I found the same page by Thomas Goss while googling on this topic. The Prokofiev excerpt is especially interesting, since it has the oboes playing p, whereas from the description of low oboe in textbooks you come away with the impression that low oboe can only be loud or louder. Of course, it does raise the question of whether this passage can be executed successfully by less-than-professional oboists.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Aug 23, 2018 13:03:41 GMT
Quite often, references to the oboes temperamental low register are in connection with spacing and dynamics and achieving a smooth balance. Dynamics are relative and as such, a moveable feast. The example John has provided is adequate proof that in a soloistic vein, the low register of the oboe can achieve a softer tone. Now if there was a chord in pp with flutes and clts in low to mid range with oboes in their nether regions, the oboes might just dominate the timbre, but even that is a useful sound for a composer who writes to exploit it. If you are writing for amateurs, it is always best to stay clear of the extremes of range (top and bottom) for all instruments except in the case of the lower registers of the strings.
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Post by driscollmusick on Aug 23, 2018 13:16:29 GMT
Some thoughts from a friend who is a professional oboist:
In general, the difficultly completely depends on the context of the excerpt, regardless of soft dynamic or not. For example, Dvorak cello concerto 2nd mvmt 2nd oboe is on every excerpt list, but in context is not as difficult. Same for Dvorak 7 2nd oboe part in the slow movement. Other things like randomly attaching a low C pianissimo with no other instruments can be challenging. Good players will be successful but it’s hard-earned, even at the professional level. Brahms’ Haydn variations 2nd oboe part in the opening theme is another excellent example. It’s hard af in an audition setting but less so in the tutti passage. That being said, I always have a special reed set aside for those low and quiet passages.
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Post by Bob Porter on Sept 4, 2018 23:37:42 GMT
Don't forget, not all players play and sound alike. Instruments, reeds and players all make a big difference.
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