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Post by driscollmusick on Dec 13, 2017 16:00:27 GMT
I would like to orchestrate the beginning of this chorale-like passage from one of Grieg's Lyric Pieces with 1st chair strings (no basses). I want them to play flautando (would like it to try to sound like a small organ), but this is quite slow music and my understanding is that flautando sound requires a fairly fast bowing technique. Should I indicate bowing at all or just write in "legato"?
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Post by Bob Porter on Dec 13, 2017 23:38:08 GMT
As fun as it is to play around with effects, I'm not sure that that's the one you want if you're after a small organ sound. Why not give it to woodwinds, which can actually sound like a small organ because, after all, they are pipes. On the other hand, I often prefer strings for chorale type music. Write "legato" if you like, but I bet the music will tell them that, also.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Dec 14, 2017 14:01:31 GMT
Hi John, I'm not sure were you got the fast bow idea from, but that is not true! Flautando or sul tasto is simply bowing over the fingerboard and long (slow) bow strokes can be used too. Flautando refers to a flute like sound which sort of describes the acoustic effect. The indication is used when a very quiet almost pale sound is needed. Bear in mind the dynamic has to be soft and if the notes are very long, staggered bow changes will be needed to maintain the illusion of sustain. As the link to the Grieg isn't working, I am only imagining what effect you may want but without context, I am also generalising a little. I would also consider non vib with sul tasto too and maybe even a mute! Make sure you indicate sul tasto or flautando (along with anything else) because using the term legato alone will miss out on the opportunity for a great effect that can mimic an organ. sul tasto
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Post by driscollmusick on Dec 14, 2017 14:40:11 GMT
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Post by Mike Hewer on Dec 14, 2017 15:07:14 GMT
Hi John, Either direction normally does it, the music will make it obvious, and players will adapt their method to what they hear, but yes there is certainly a distinction obscured by a lack of precise definition in general use (of which I am guilty...my bad ). If you also mark in something like "organ or harmonium like" that'll do it for sure. I am sure the bow speed can be a bit slower though, but there may well be a play off between the hollow almost harmonic sound and just a soft tasto sound. Without seeing the music, I am still in the dark as to what you are wanting to do, but if the music is very sustained, have you considered using harmonics sul tasto? At the very least it'd be a good exercise to test your knowledge of harmonics!!!!!! good links btw....I've had Mr Alberman play on some of my sessions - he was a founder of the Arditti 4tet one of whom is a great friend.
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Post by driscollmusick on Dec 14, 2017 17:34:06 GMT
Hi John, Either direction normally does it, the music will make it obvious, and players will adapt their method to what they hear, but yes there is certainly a distinction obscured by a lack of precise definition in general use (of which I am guilty...my bad ). If you also mark in something like "organ or harmonium like" that'll do it for sure. I am sure the bow speed can be a bit slower though, but there may well be a play off between the hollow almost harmonic sound and just a soft tasto sound. Without seeing the music, I am still in the dark as to what you are wanting to do, but if the music is very sustained, have you considered using harmonics sul tasto? At the very least it'd be a good exercise to test your knowledge of harmonics!!!!!! good links btw....I've had Mr Alberman play on some of my sessions - he was a founder of the Arditti 4tet one of whom is a great friend. Thanks, Mike. I guess I'm not loading in pictures correctly, but the video below is the Grieg. Any specific thoughts on bowing when looking at it would be appreciated. I have been thinking on it at a slower tempo than this video, but the second part drags, so I probably need to speed it up...
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Post by Mike Hewer on Dec 15, 2017 14:56:38 GMT
hi John, Here are 3 options for possible bowing. I marked sul D too. The tone will be even softer on the D string and would enhance the timbre you are after imo. You'll notice I used dashed slurs too, they are not absolutely necessary, but will give the phrasing alla the piano part if you feel it necessary. Tenuto marks at bar 2 feel right to me, the slight separation on the repeated notes enhances the phrase to my ears and almost mimics the pianos quick attack and decay. Version 1 is closest to flautando bowing as seen on your link, i.e. separate bows, the others are just some alternative ways of doing it. Hope this helps... Attachments:JohnGrieg.pdf (40.33 KB)
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Post by Dave Dexter on Dec 15, 2017 23:24:47 GMT
Those LSO examples are incredible! You could easily have convinced me, audio only, that a flute or pipe organ was involved somewhere. I assume the effect is emphasised on the heavier strings?
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Post by driscollmusick on Dec 18, 2017 23:01:04 GMT
hi John, Here are 3 options for possible bowing. I marked sul D too. The tone will be even softer on the D string and would enhance the timbre you are after imo. You'll notice I used dashed slurs too, they are not absolutely necessary, but will give the phrasing alla the piano part if you feel it necessary. Tenuto marks at bar 2 feel right to me, the slight separation on the repeated notes enhances the phrase to my ears and almost mimics the pianos quick attack and decay. Version 1 is closest to flautando bowing as seen on your link, i.e. separate bows, the others are just some alternative ways of doing it. Hope this helps... Thanks very much, Mike! I think I am going to go with some slight bowing, just to indicate phrasing.
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