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Post by driscollmusick on Nov 1, 2017 16:07:32 GMT
I'm sure many of you are quite familiar with the specifics of this movement, but I still thought this video was worth sharing with the group.
In particular, I think it's a great example of how extremely complex counterpoint principles/techniques can be used to astonishing effect in non-fugal forms...
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Post by pantonal on Nov 1, 2017 20:59:05 GMT
Thanks for posting. He does a nice job of analyzing the movement and highlighting its incredible craftsmanship. The colors make it clear what's going on at any given moment.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Nov 2, 2017 13:11:56 GMT
Nice one John. One of the glorious mvts in classical music. The technique is effortless.
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Post by fuguestate on Nov 2, 2017 17:27:35 GMT
This movement is said to be the height of Mozart's contrapuntal genius, but its sheer brilliance is tempered by subtlety, and can only be truly appreciated when you listen with an attentive ear and carefully follow the intricate weaving lines. I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it, but over time, as I became more familiar with it, the climax at the end was just mind-blowingly awesome, the convergence and release of all the contrapuntal tension that has been building up throughout the entire movement. Truly one of the classics that deserved its fame!
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Post by Dave Dexter on Nov 2, 2017 17:45:19 GMT
The more interesting issue to my mind is whether he knew he was doing it/deliberately set out to do it, or just followed what was in his head.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Nov 2, 2017 19:21:21 GMT
He knew all right. The golden balance between calculation and inspiration is what we all strive for. Yes, he did it in his head and heart, but with a cool mind - like finding a gem but extracting with the utmost precision.
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Post by lawrence on Nov 2, 2017 20:02:23 GMT
But most of art has been moving away from symmetry and design for the last 200 years to a more free flowing style. A recent example: MCanales opera is more in the style of Wagner as opposed to Verdi which is more structured. Are you suggesting we incorporate more structure into our work? I would argue that eventhough Bach often surpasses Mozart in complexity much of Bach's work is more free flowing. Probably the reason I like Mozart less than Bach is because Mozart is so structured/predictable.
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Post by Dave Dexter on Nov 2, 2017 23:40:09 GMT
He knew all right. The golden balance between calculation and inspiration is what we all strive for. Yes, he did it in his head and heart, but with a cool mind - like finding a gem but extracting with the utmost precision. I try not to think - more than once a day at least - that if I were suddenly transported to the land before DAWs and software, I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing. Mozart's profligacy doesn't help me in that regard.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Nov 3, 2017 8:56:27 GMT
I think structure is key in music even if it is not readily apparent in a work. I do tend to subvert it as much as possible in my own so called serious music -for example, the regularity of 2, 4, 8 etc. phrasing which for me in a concert work, can be a tediously predictable hindrance to a freer way of thinking especially when it comes to line. Form too is ripe for subversion in my book, although that does not mean it is not there, it does after all aid comprehension (and composition) even if it is only the composer who perceives it. Form and predictability of phrase are precursors for media and popular writing of course and are an essential element for immediate appeal as they instil and hence breed familiarity and generate dosh.
Mozart was a child of the age of symmetry in music, but even he subverted phrase length and symmetry occasionally.
EDIT..
In my time writing music for media, I often found that in order to match an edit or sync point, some unusual phrasing or bar length was required, but I think Williams and the old school had the best approach - one without click so that rubato could be used more effectively which to me, made the music more, well musical and this is what i also tried to do when the situation allowed.
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Post by fuguestate on Nov 3, 2017 19:57:55 GMT
It's funny, every now and then I hear people bemoan the stiffness or regularity of 2/4/8 beat/bar phrasing, or refer to the tyranny of the bar line, but I find myself wondering why my own music hardly ever exhibits such tendencies, and whether it's some deep-seated weakness of my composition skills that would cause it to have irregular phrase lengths. It seems that while others have been trying to break out of regular phrasing, I've been trying my best yet failing to arrive at regular phrasing. What gives?!
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