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Post by Dave Dexter on Sept 9, 2017 15:55:59 GMT
Always worry it'll seem I'm jamming my music around as much as possible, or worse still thinking it's a sufficient pinnacle to crow about (I try to be honest with myself and I don't think either is true), but I think in this case it's relevant. This is a good example of what I've achieved (with help) without being able to read or write music. I'm not saying it's music you'd aim to write, but it all worked. Being able to read is definitely a plus, but in many ways it's simply the best current universal language with which to communicate, understand and store musical ideas. I work almost entirely visually in piano roll, that's how I understand things. The ideas existed before the language, even if you don't know the names for what you're doing you definitely have the style and ability to progress. I'm as under-educated as you; more so, probably, given you can actually play piano and read "just barely". None of which is to say "don't listen to Mike because you can't currently read music". You don't need me to tell you that Mike is a huge musical resource trapped inside a decent-ish bloke. Down goes Frazier... Down goes Frazier...Well... this is embarrassing (I thought this was too good to be true). F***ed again. Nope. All my theory's in my head - 'play by ear - always have. Yes. I can read. But just barely. Its a slow and mighty struggle - rarely use the stuff. But call-out 'three sharps' and I know where we're at. Is there a bright side, here? Yes. I had Hewer fooled for a minute. After hearing my music, he assumed that I could read. At least I had you for a second, there (TBH - I thought you were going to whip up an aural-demo). The under-educated poor cousin at the fancy family reunion. Carry on with someone else, then. I'll go outside and watch through the window.
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 9, 2017 16:08:39 GMT
..... but I fear the process may be lost on you as the whole point is to see the melodic shape and expand, contract, invert, add notes, take them away, alter intervals, change/add rhythm, extend etc. If your ear is good, you may get a sense..... Try me. ( 'never could turn down a coupla' beers.)
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Post by Mike Hewer on Sept 9, 2017 16:16:51 GMT
yes, well said David and Dave. Boot, some of the most talented people I met in my pro work were non readers and as the gentlemen have said, your music is no less effective for not being able to read. Yep, I'll post it in the next few days.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Sept 10, 2017 9:54:28 GMT
As promised, here it is Boot. I should just clarify a few things about this study. First off, it is just an hours worth of brain dump and is not meant to be a finished piece of music, it is merely an initial exploration of your original theme. I have tried to show you how to extend and distort motifs to hunt out any latent musical implications using technical means. You can view it as a sort of composers' google search on the notes you supplied. This sort of study enables you to go deep into the notes and hunt out moments of promise and it also takes some of the guesswork out of what is supposed to come next. By subjecting the notes to procedures like this it tends to focus your mind and gets you familiar with the material. Therefore, the music is exploratory in nature, but with almost each bar new potential has been found which may be ripe for more development depending on your musical taste and instinct. If this music were mine, it would undergo many revisions before I'd let people hear it, but I thought it'd be best for you to see the fleshing out in its initial raw state. It is by no means exhaustive as there are many more procedures that can be used and many directions to travel in, but hopefully what's here might get you thinking in a different way. Also, too much happens too soon here, but that's ok-it is not meant to flow fully just yet - as I've said, it is a brain dump. As I got into it, my mind was beginning to see what was worth pursuing and extending and what might be useful later. Bearing in mind you don't read, I have endeavoured to give you some visual feedback by bracketing and lettering motifs which I hope will be useful. There is no attempt at production and the piano is just a foil for the flute and as such, no real effort was put into the piano part other than making sure it made more sense of and clarified the flute line. Attachments:boot study.pdf (491.22 KB)
boot.study.use.mp3 (956.2 KB)
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 10, 2017 15:41:01 GMT
This is great, Mike. Thank you for opening up my eyes. Simply this thread's discussion and interaction, prior to this latest reply from you, opened for me new paths and concepts for exploration. As while I was at the keyboard yesterday afternoon, with your words echoing in my lil' pea brain, I created and subsequently delved into a new little daw project entitled "Modal Development", wherein I did what you are talking about - wrote a simple line and proceeded to explored the various permutations. Well... SOME of the various possibilities. As there truly are infinite variations to be found. Throwing out the trash and cutting to the chase - now there's some more work to be done.
O.K. Now you've done it. You have created a monster over here - me. I will now dive-in to what you just sent-up (and the included, simplified "mini score" looks right up my alley - thanks).
Cover me - I'm goin' in.
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Post by David Unger on Sept 10, 2017 17:29:04 GMT
Sounds great that it gave you something to dig into, Boot. Your post, Mike, inspired me as well to dig deeper into techiques that for the most part has yet only been theoretical terms in analysis. It shall be very interesting and fun to see what comes out of Boot's fingers and I can't wait to see what comes out of my own pen. A truly inspirational thread this has turned out to be.
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 10, 2017 20:02:00 GMT
Mr. Hewer. It seems that you've turned green on us. (Congrats?)
So, like a ton of bricks, it occurs to me that I've been doing this all along - sorta'. I sit down, improvise a little 'til I hit upon something, Then I work it, work it, and then work it some more. Eventually, upon having advanced the little starting nugget to a certain point of coolness, proclaiming to myself, "That's cool", I move on. Left out a little something, didn't I.
I've neglected taking the listener on the ride with me. And there's also a second critical omissions.
A. I just plop the "Cool thing" in front of my listener, without having taken him/her by the hand and showing them the way to this coolness.
B. I stop short. "Here you go. This is cool (enough)", without allowing the little seed to fully bloom to it's full and magnificent potential. "Wow, A flower bud. I think I'll prune it off and enter it in the flower show."
In short, my pieces are static.
So, then. I need to change my ways. And thank you, Mr. H, for shining a light on this. Eternal gratitude... well... gratitude for a really, really long time, anyway.
Now, once I incorporate into my new, well developed theme, corrections of all my other shortcomings - better harmonization, melody inversion, counter point, tempo change, arrangement and a thorough understanding of orchestration among others, I should be on easy street - or dead (seems that while I was busy with LIFE, a funny thing happened - I ain't that young anymore).
O.K. Hewer. I mean, Moderator Hewer, Sir. - a little request. I am having a ball exploring the pieces posted on your website. How about a little reverse engineering? How about choosing any one you wish, and sharing with us it's genesis - it's 'humble beginning.'
We'd all love that, now - wouldn't we, kids?
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah...
I thought so.
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Post by Dave Dexter on Sept 10, 2017 20:09:48 GMT
I'd certainly be interested in seeing scores or breakdowns of your more tonal work, because my musical lens is narrow. Any scores from Father Christmas? It's always interesting - and useful - to see how a score's laid out that ended up being recorded. That barbershop choral piece would also be fun to see. I was going to mention when you first posted it, but forgot. How about a little reverse engineering? How about choosing any one you wish, and sharing with us it's genesis - it's 'humble beginning.' We'd all love that, now - wouldn't we, kids?
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 10, 2017 21:57:17 GMT
Of course, it's your choice. But 'Adagio for Strings' would interest me greatly. I just want to 'hear' what you start with - what sparks a piece like this. And if you want to do something Dave wants, that's OK, too.
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 11, 2017 3:01:32 GMT
I'd certainly be interested in seeing scores or breakdowns of your more tonal work, because my musical lens is narrow. Any scores from Father Christmas? It's always interesting - and useful - to see how a score's laid out that ended up being recorded. That barbershop choral piece would also be fun to see. I was going to mention when you first posted it, but forgot. How about a little reverse engineering? How about choosing any one you wish, and sharing with us it's genesis - it's 'humble beginning.' We'd all love that, now - wouldn't we, kids? Hey, Dave. I'm not sure about the pieces you mentioned, but the compositions that I'm interested in are up on YT accompanied by their respective scores.
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Post by Mike Hewer on Sept 11, 2017 8:07:48 GMT
Pleased to be able to help Boot, thanks - you can call me Sir Mike..:-) It looks as though you are on track with what I was getting at which is really cool. I am also thinking of posting a way of generating hybrid harmony and scales as starting points for exploration and general rummaging around whilst trying to find an idea, which some folk might find useful. These techniques can be used for dissonance or consonance and it is surprising how much material can be generated within a few moves. I suppose I could do a quick analysis of the Adagio, but no promises as that thing you mentioned, you know Life, gets in the way now and again. But maybe it wont take long to mark it up in Sibelius the way I did with your study. I am touched that you are finding a lot in my work and btw, if you go to the scores page on the website, you will find the same movies that are on YT.
Dave,
The Father Xmas score is under copyright and I couldn't even if I could. It was done in the early 90's and the score is in my own hand and not in digital form. Likewise, the Barbershop piece, done also pre-computer. I'll have a look, see what's around and perhaps post some orchestral stuff if I can marry it with a pdf score. I'll probably have to open a Soundcloud account.
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Post by Dave Dexter on Sept 11, 2017 16:34:25 GMT
Dave, The Father Xmas score is under copyright and I couldn't even if I could. It was done in the early 90's and the score is in my own hand and not in digital form. Likewise, the Barbershop piece, done also pre-computer. I'll have a look, see what's around and perhaps post some orchestral stuff if I can marry it with a pdf score. I'll probably have to open a Soundcloud account. Ah, hadn't considered that. Please don't trouble yourself on my account in that case!
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Post by Mike Hewer on Sept 11, 2017 17:39:49 GMT
Sounds great that it gave you something to dig into, Boot. Your post, Mike, inspired me as well to dig deeper into techiques that for the most part has yet only been theoretical terms in analysis. It shall be very interesting and fun to see what comes out of Boot's fingers and I can't wait to see what comes out of my own pen. A truly inspirational thread this has turned out to be. Thanks David. I thought you probably would have heard of these techniques. Yes, you must try them - it is quite remarkable what can be found at times with a little diligence.
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 11, 2017 20:48:27 GMT
"Diligence." Where's the best place to get some of that - does Amazon have decent prices?
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Post by BootHamilton on Sept 11, 2017 21:02:54 GMT
These are not working so good for me. They come up a little wonky - blank - until you put your mouse over them. And then, you don't know what your 'playing' until you click the play button. YouTube works flawlessly on the same vids. Thought you needed to know this.
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